Quintessential Listening: Poetry Online Radio Presents Dr. Arif Ahmad

0:00 Welcome to the Quintessential Poetry Podcast, streamed live from the heart of Washington, D .C. Here, you'll find a portal to vibrant voices, echoing souls, and an ongoing celebration of the extraordinary power of language. Prepare yourself to join host Dr. Michael Anthony Ingram and his special guests as they explore traditional and spoken word forms of poetry. I have the honor of interviewing the award -winning, best -selling author Dr. Arif Ahmad. His debut poetry collection is titled A Piece of Me, an arrangement of words to inspire reflection. The collection explores peace, unity, and democracy from the perspective of Muslim, Pakistani immigrants, and cardiologists.

1:04 Welcome, Dr. Ahmad, to the program. Thank you so much for the kind introduction. Well, let's begin this poetic journey. What I'd like to know from you first, sir, is what is poetry? Poetry for me is a state of convergence. It's the rhythm of life. When I look around, I see a lot of rhythm. Nature, you know, I'm an outdoors person and usually as a rule of thumb, when we are in the outdoors, we can tell man versus nature by if something is in a straight line, that's man -made.

1:45 If something is curvy in a rhythm, that's usually nature. So look at the sun going up, coming down, the moon, the wind, the trees. I believe in God. I don't consider myself extremely religious, but I do well with the basics. And I do believe in God. And if you look at all these religions, whenever God spoke to man, and that includes Quran, there's a lot of rhythm in this. So poetry for me is that state of convergence where all of us the beings, we come together. That's our common place of rhythm. And that rhythm, it doesn't have to be perfect. It can be as good or as bad as it can be. But still, at the end of the day, it's our state of convergence. It's our rhythm.

2:36 Sometimes it malfunctions. Sometimes it gets better. Sometimes it's perfect. Sometimes it's not as good. So that's poetry for me. So when you think of what poetry is to you. In a general sense, why is it important? Well, I never planned to be a poet and I don't consider myself even today that I'm an all -poet. Some of the book is prose, but I basically just let my parts take the shape they wanted to take. And then I noticed that there was an inherent rhythm in some of my writings which just wanted to be presented like a poem. So I let that happen. The other advantage personally which I got from writing poetry is that it reads well and it's brief, it's succinct. So I can say a lot. and I can point towards a lot without saying a lot. It gives me that margin of error, that room with...

3:50 Remember, I'm a Muslim and I've lived through this two decades of war on terror. So like many of us, we have our backs against the wall. So we are careful about what we say, how we say it. And poetry gives me that option to do it just right. Please share with me an early experience where you learn that poetic language has power. I think I would give you two examples, Doc. I've looked into that. I've looked at other religions, Judaism and Christianity and Hinduism and Sikhism.

4:36 And of course, I am a Muslim and Quran. I read Quran. And I tried to read some of the other religions too. And there is a lot of rhythm in Quran. So that is my inspiration. And then there was a poet philosopher. His name was Sir Muhammad Allama Iqbal. who wrote a lot of Quran, and he referred to a lot of Quran, so he was my inspiration. He was a big name, poet, philosopher. For some reason, it looks like when God chooses to talk to man, some of it is in rhythm, and I don't know why, but that's what it appears like. Please share a poem, sir. All right, Doc. Well, I'll share something short. It's called, I Keep Trying.

5:35 I wrote this in December 2019. I keep trying harder and harder, adding one wrong to another, piling mine over theirs, hoping that come a day they might add up to become a right. and the poem. Oh, I'm going to ask you to share that one again. Sometimes I like hearing them twice. The first time I'm settling in and the second time I can really listen. That's totally fine. And that's the beauty of poetry. Yes, it is. And ten people may read this poem and they may all have their own take on it. I keep trying.

6:22 The name, the heading is I keep trying. The title of the poem. I keep trying harder and harder, adding one wrong to another, piling mine over theirs, hoping that come a day they might add up to become a right. Wow. That's very profound. Extremely profound. You've written a book, a piece of me. Now the title in itself is quite interesting. First, tell me about the title and then what inspired the book. Well, Doc, so the title, it is a piece of me because it's a perspective.

7:08 It's my perspective of multiple things which my life circles around. I never planned to be a book author. This was not planned. I never planned to write poetry. This was not planned. It just happened. call it destiny. The book one night in 2000, I think it was 13, the first writing, The Optimist, I just got up and wrote that in 10 -15 minutes. I was in that state of mind and then I just kept writing these small pieces and they got published and I would send them and they'll get published here and there and newspapers and some journals and some online places. And finally, it was last year that I thought about making a book out of them. And when I looked around, asked some questions, luckily I got some help. And that's how the book came around. So then I looked at all the work which I had written over almost a decade. And I selected what I wanted to put in that book, about 80 % of what I had.

8:18 And that formed the book. It's not a big book. Not all pages are full pages. But that's how the book came into being. The book is my take, my perspective, it's my story. So it's a very fine point here, Doc, and I'm going to spend a little time here because I think it is important. Yes. The book is a perspective which is grossly missing from the Western dialogue. And when I say Western, I say Europe and North America. I'm going to ask you a question. Give me five names of five Muslim media spokesperson or media contributors in North America and Europe. Name me five Muslim media people who are the face who you can say, oh this guy is a Muslim and he is on the television or his columns are in the newspaper or he i know so give me five such names you're a media person you know what i'm asking give me the names of five muslim newspaper writers regular column writers or tv anchors or tv personalities between europe and north america so that's okay Alright, how much time

9:50 do I have? Well, I think you know what I'm asking. I do. You know, it's sad and I'll tell you why it's sad. It's very sad. We lived through this war on terror over 20 years and every time I'd open up the evening news or television and look up the newspaper, there is somebody else sitting there or writing there telling me how a Muslim mind thinks or how a Muslim mind reacts. And I'm listening to all this and I'm like, okay, well, that may or may not be right because nobody's asking me. There's no Muslim voice sitting in that panel. And why is the Muslim voice important?

10:41 Why was it ever needed? Because this war on terror was supposedly not against Islam. But why was the Muslim voice important? The Muslim voice was important because the Muslims like me, the middle of the road, the citizens of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq, we were the largest casualty of this war on terror. So we were caught in the crossfire. The fundamentalists, who the West was fighting. And where are these fights going on? There are no battlegrounds or battlefields anywhere. They are being fought in cities in Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan. And guess who is dying? People like me, my family, my friends.

11:39 So this kept happening. And I have the data somewhere that I think the casualty of the war, 20 year war on terror was what? Approximately a million people dead, trillion dollars were spent. So when you look at this statistic, somewhere in the book, I write that we made that perfect sandwich. And then on the Western front, we took the brunt also. So when I started, I said our backs were against the wall. And even today, Islam, Muslim, these words are looked at with suspicion. We had to prove our citizenship, our good Samaritan ship. So everything for us became harder. We were checked at the airports. I'm pretty sure many of us were eavesdropped upon, spied upon.

12:36 So this is happening to this large population of, you can call me by whatever name, average Muslim Joe. And nobody is allowed in the Western media to present this perspective or talk about this perspective or share this perspective. I can give you an analogy that you can imagine the African American experience and now imagine that there's no African American voice to represent that experience. So that's how I feel sometimes. So the book in many ways that the reaction to all those 20 years and there's much more than just the war on terror but that's a part of the book so it's a reaction to the Muslim perspective with the average Muslim Joe's perspective it was it's still missing to this date now a couple of things one I do know one His name is Mehdi Hassan. He's on MSNBC. And also, what happened with 9 -11 all those years ago, there were a number of us who felt, to be quite honest with you, that that was the first time African Americans were not viewed as being, quote, the lowest on the poll. It was the first time we ever fit in.

14:06 There was another group. You see what I'm saying? You know, this is fantastic, Doug. this is so so good to hear you what you just said it just reaffirms i i know this and i'll be honest with you you know i'm blessed in many ways i i am highly educated i'm yes i'm a practicing tradition i have a great practice i have a great following my patients i love them they love me back my colleagues and all that But that's not the Muslim that's I'm not so your classic average Muslim experience in the West the classic average Muslim experience is much worse the racism the bigotry we face From the West and all the time all the while We are getting killed using our lives literally literally speaking. There was a time few years back when talking to my family in Lahore, Pakistan.

15:10 There were bombs going on literally every week. And one of my uncles, he said, Arif, when we leave home in the morning, we don't know how many are going to come back. This was Lahore, Pakistan, a bustling metropolitan city. So this happened to us. I am so, I'm so appreciative, Doug, that you said what you said. because that really happened. We were getting hit from the fundamentalists and from the West. And we made this losing our lives. We were getting doubt, being doubted. We were scorned at, eavesdropped, eyed upon, doubted upon. So maybe this book is a reaction to that. And this book is now, is like, let me speak for myself, please. This is my perspective. says my word don't assume me let me be me i want to speak beautifully stated beautifully stated please share a poem sir well doc going with the flow with what i was saying uh the very first form in the book is your average muslim joe and mary and this I wrote in April 2015 at a time when the majority of Muslims were caught in the crossfire, eradicated en masse

16:42 by the Muslim fundamentalists for not being Muslim enough and siding with the West. Tried unilaterally in the media, embarrassed, condemned, regarded with suspicion, frisked at the airports, many having lost their lives and checked off as collateral damage by the warring West, often misunderstood and taken out of context. Never for a conflict, we like it quiet and out of limelight, not expecting anyone to bail us out or elevate our status.

17:28 Some fault for all this surely lies with us. We are your average Muslim, Joe and Mary, the single largest casualty, the silent tragedy of this war on terror. And it is for us to find a way out of this rut to become a world -class scientist, a politician, an artist, a philosopher, excel at living, and never say never. End of phone, Doc. Wow. It sounds like something inside you compelled you to release it from your system.

18:14 Your thoughts, your feelings. You're probably right, Doc. This didn't happen, this book didn't come about in a year or six months. It took me almost a decade to write these pieces. It's funny, when I first started my professorship, this was years ago, my program, they had a national reputation for being social activists, and they were really big on social action. But when they hired me, I think they had a view of what an African -American man should be. They really didn't hire me. They hired the stereotype, but they didn't hire me. I'm my own unique individual, proud to be who I am. And that was the message that I shared with them. I mean, it wasn't an easy message to share, but it was important for me to be the individual in the situation, if I'm gonna make it. Yeah, that is absolutely correct, Doc. And to be honest with you, African -American experience went through centuries to get to the belonging and the status where, and it's still not, Where it should be but at least like you said, it's much better than before. I hope it doesn't take us that long to Yeah, I just hope we Yeah Now your collection in terms of the predominant themes you explore peace unity and democracy Those are

19:48 huge topics to talk about why those topics as opposed to Don't know I won't say gloom and doom, but I guess I will say that why a positive perspective as opposed to Let me throw in another concept here, so What I believe is if you look around It all boils down to Samaritan and the community of Good Samaritan, if you look around the planet, the countries which are blessed or which we think are blessed or peaceful or doing well, stable, are where there are more Good Samaritans, where people treat each other well. And the countries where this doesn't happen are the ones which we see in the bottom of the ladder where they are just struggling in so many ways. So if you look around the planet, this is what I believe.

21:06 I'll give you a kitchen talk, a Muslim kitchen talk. We say this quite often in our discussions, and that's why I think it's important to include our voice over this course, which in the last two decades has not happened we discuss we say this quite often doc that we believe you know in our muslim talk in our kitchen talk or whatever that west practices more islam so quran what do all religions say what do all religions say they all say become a good samaritan the most single most important thing is be good be good things around you, people around you, all religions say the same thing, Quran says the same thing.

21:56 So we joke about this quite often that actually people, you know, living in the West, Christian, Jews, Hindus, whatever, or even atheists, they might be practicing, they might be better Muslims because when you read Quran and you look at the teachings, Most of it is about being a good Samaritan. So, you get the drift? Yes, I do. You know, at the end of the day, when our backs are against the wall, so what am I going to do about it? Am I a positive person? Am I a biologist? I understand how important optimism is to prevent these, to prevent aging. So, I can't control what comes at me, but I can control how I respond to it.

22:49 And I choose to respond to it in an optimistic, positive manner. That's most of the book is, even with the negative scenarios, the gun violence, the democracy, the racism, the war on terror, these big issues, the gender and racial inequality. It's unbelievable that we still don't have, United States of America still does not have a woman president. When Pakistan, Islamic Republic of Pakistan and Bangladesh have had, third world countries have had Muslim presidents, United States of America is still without its first woman president. So that's why many of these writings in the poem are reactionary to something I wanted to say. Something happened. It affected me. It affected my life. It affected my way of living. It affected my loved ones. And then I said what I said in the way I said it. Your book is about emotion. There's no other way that it cannot be without emotion. Do you think that someone can be called a poet if they don't feel strong emotions? Oh, boy. So you ask me some questions. That's a great question. Can there be poetry which is emotionless? I guess there can be. There can be poetry which can be emotionless

24:20 and it can be quite effective. There can be poetry written just from the brain and the senses and that can be quite effective. Not every single poem or writing I have in there is written with a lot of emotion. Some of them is just... To bring a point across, I'm a cardiologist. A lot of what I do is about healthy living. There are several writings about healthy living and all that. So, I mean, yes and no. I guess you need emotions, but perhaps my second book would be a little more tame. It won't become a bestseller perhaps. I don't know. Right now with this book written, a lot off my chest. It's out there now.

25:03 in libraries, it's multiple places, it's been well read. So at least this is, maybe I'll say the same thing in different ways. A lot of this reaction, I'm sorry to say it, but that happened in the Trump years of what we went through, you know, everything, all that pressure on the Muslim world and the Muslims, American Muslims, was increased during those years for one reason or the other. And I think most of the minorities probably felt that way. Now, having said that, was Trump all wrong? Not at all. You know, that's a very important perspective. Another concept I bring to the table, that there are no absolute positions. Whatever I'm saying, it's probably not 100 % correct for many people. The meeting point lies somewhere between the extremes. And we don't need to... I don't think Trump was all wrong or all right or the other side is all wrong or all right. There were perspectives and the meeting point is somewhere in the middle. And there is a poem, if that's okay with you, if I can... Yes, please. I'd love to hear it. Which is this, if I can read that. It's called This, I Believe. It was written in September 2018.

26:33 And I quote, such is the nature of the beast that I believe not one conflict of any nature or scale is an unequivocal complete fault of only one side, not one. And if this premise can be agreed upon, then therein lies the solution. I don't believe that everything I say and write is totally correct. No, it's not. And I think that's part of this good Samaritan, you know, the best fabric of America and why America, I feel, is blessed. Today, it's what makes America, which is your everyday people, the people of America. So that is why we are blessed. We're not blessed because we have politicians or we have... That's how I look at this. We are blessed because we are one of the best good Samaritan community out there. That's how I look at it.

27:50 We are some of the best people out there. Just the average people, average Americans, you go out and, you know, majority of them are just... downright good people. So that's why we are where we are. We are still the top country on the planet. And I think this is the main reason why we are blessed. So I became nervous when I felt many of us became nervous when we felt that we may lose that a few years back. But hopefully not. I think hopefully our better angels would prevail. Well, we're going to take a quick break. But here's a question for you before we go that you can answer after the break. Are you hoping this book resonates with a broad range of readers, or are you targeting a specific audience? That's the question. All right? All right. OK. We'll be right back. We are back. I am Michael Anthony

29:44 Ingram. I'm here with Dr. Arif Amaj. Dr. Amaj, please answer my question. Who do you want to read this book? As a Muslim author, Doc, I am at a disadvantage. If this were the race, I start from behind the line because of the unease around Muslims and Islam or whatever. And I think you put it very eloquently with what you said initially. It'll probably come out at some point in one of my writings in some way. So I hope this is read by a wider, it's not focused towards anyone.

30:31 I hope it's read by a wider population because the reaction I'm getting is that they're like, whoa, you're just like us, your imperfections, your worries, your thinking, you're just like a person. So I think that breaking that taboo that, and we're doing it in our own sphere, so I'm doing it with people I know and my friends and my hunting buddies and at my farm and at my place of work, but I think it needs to be done in a broader... perspective. And that needs personality. That needs, for example, 20, 30, 40, 50 Muslims, which everyone can relate to.

31:20 Oh, that person is a Muslim and he is just a normal Joe or normal Mary. And that has not happened yet, unfortunately. It's happening, but it's not, we're not there yet. So I hope this perspective is picked up by a wider population. No, the book is not for any one particular anything. It's for whoever. Knowing what you know about the world and your lived experiences, does it hurt you, Dr. Ahmad, to write poetry? I don't mean physically. It could be some upset in your body. Again, does it hurt you to write poetry? If not, why not? Doc, If you have your questions lined up really well, wow. That's a great question.

32:10 I can't give you an honest answer because I never thought anyone would ask me this question. And the short answer is yes. I'll tell you some of these writings years ago and I was writing them and they were getting published on the web or in print. And I'll be honest with you, a part of me was not sure what would happen to me. So not only was this book a test of American freedoms, it was also a test of, very honestly speaking, would somebody just kill me or would somebody just... react negatively to me, knowing that I'm out and I'm writing these pieces. And just because there's a vocal Muslim voice, I'll be honest with you, some of the reactionary writings about President Trump, I'd be working out in our basement in dark. And I'll think sometimes, maybe there's a bullet with my name on it, or somebody would just... So yes, you're absolutely right. Lines, these writings, they are not without a price. But then at the end of the day, it's the same. In many ways, my experience, our experience,

33:41 Doc, is very similar to the African -American experience, which probably you can relate to. At the end of the day, are you going to stay quiet and just keep the day low, or are you going to speak up? speak up in a positive manner, optimistic manner. That's what I chose to do. Once I was twice in the book, I kind of lost it, but then even that, I tried to recover. But most of the writings, I think it's an optimistic book at the end of the day. Well, my question about feeling hurt segues into this one. Tell me about a poem you were proud of writing, but afraid to share for fear of misinterpretation. Oh, wow. Okay.

34:27 I think there are quite a few, actually. These are great questions, Doc. I didn't write them. One of our former guests, Poetic Humminbird, she sent them to me. I can't take that. So, one which I was afraid of, there are quite a few, actually. But which one? But you did it anyway. You did it anyway. Regardless of what could have potentially happened, I commend you so much. for sharing your voice. And when you said earlier that people could see that you're just like them, that the only difference truly is our skin color, that we feel, we love all those things that anybody else would want. I'm so glad you're with me.

35:17 Yeah. There's a rather long poem, Doc. Yes. I don't like to talk about it because it can be so easily misinterpreted by both sides. It's called Hope. It was written in April of 2016. It's my dialogue with a Muslim jihadist. It's a long poem. I don't want to read that if you don't want me to, but the point with the poem is that for us and even to this day, It's not just a balancing act just with the West, where many of us live or relate to. It's also a balancing act with the fundamentalists, because if you start writing openly against the fundamentalists, they're going to come after you. Do you understand what I'm saying? I do. In this regard, it's different from the African -American experience, because you didn't have two sides to balance. We are in between a suspicious West and a killing fundamentalist clan and we are in the middle trying to balance it out while getting killed in our home turf, in our homeland, in our neighborhoods and in our towns and cities. So it's a very difficult balancing act. Would you mind reading some of

36:52 it? You can read all of it if you like, if you feel comfortable. I'd like to hear. It's a tricky one, but it's called Hope, April 2016. Dear Muslim jihadist, that's a fundamentalist. Yes. It feels like yesterday when you accounted for all of them lives. and with your own included. And I'm not here to demonize, patronize, or judge you on your motive. I concede that you may have faced your own provocation and injustice, but besides your reasons, this is to update you on the state of affairs since. The religion, yours, mine, ours, is in turmoil as we are fighting with and killing most of, and then some more Muslims, divided into Shia and Sunni, confused, tentative, defensive, are some of the states we are in.

38:12 The children of Noah, of Abraham, people of one God, fighting, shedding blood is how the big picture reads. In some way, we may have lost the forest for the trees. So make a wild guess as to what is on the rise. The non -believers, the agnostics, the atheists. And I'm not sure how thrilled God is with all this. A very rudimentary question in my mind goes as such. If your loved ones were hurt for no fault of theirs, is harming the no fault loved ones of others the correct response? For how is God going to settle between you and your victims? Many of them were aiming for the very same heavens. Still, there is hope.

39:27 As I think of the life of Jesus or Joseph feeding his brothers or Muhammad the Meccans. And I wonder about your true potential, the could have been. You were willing to lay your life for a cause, only if you could make your point by harnessing those energies for all our well -being. The rage of hate, revenge, and regress turned into the past. passion for loving, embrace, and progress.

40:13 Kind of stuff legends are made of. Yes. Wow. End of poem. Dr. Ahmad, did you know that your voice takes on a different resonance when you share that piece? There's a level of conviction when you speak. The power emanates from you when you share that piece. Why do you think that is? What about that piece is different than some of the others? I don't know, Doc. It's a tough question. I don't know. But seriously, I don't know. I think because I am speaking from the heart. Let me pull up another. This is such a difficult balancing act. I know it. What we are still living through. Yes. Ordinarily, I ask, what is the relationship between your speaking voice and your written voice? That's usually the question that I ask. Come again, Doc. All right. What is the relationship between your speaking voice and your written voice? Are you two different people, one who you share? Oh, I see. If I'm reading a poem, I try to bring it to life. That's all I try. I keep it simple.

41:34 And then whatever happened, I have an accent. And that's all right. I had to be as correct as possible phonetically. But at the end of the day, I still have an accent. Which form? There was the one that got published in CNN. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this actually happened. So just imagine this balancing act, which is our life. So this poem is called Paris January 7, 2015. This is the Charlie Hebdo incident. And this writing was published online by the CNN. Last day in France, our wedding anniversary, on a visit to that one duber and the Eiffel Tower, it turns grim about midday with news of the Charlie Massacre.

42:37 A friend then urged me, Aarif, you're a Muslim and here's an opportunity. Write something. And I'm thinking, get in the middle of this mess. Are you kidding? For how should I ask the civilized world if freedom of speech means compulsive insulting of a religion? and where its prophet's imagery is forbidden, repeatedly making his funny caricatures. And how am I conveying to the Muslims that the law of sarcasm states that the more sensitive one is about something, the more likely it will keep hitting them in the face. And how am I going to say that maybe a vacuum exists for lack of a more sophisticated response by a Muslim scholar?

43:41 And how in the world can I tell the Muslim fundamentalist that reactionary killing is negative publicity, self -defeating prophecy, the exact opposite of Allahu Akbar? So I'm staying out of this as that, I believe, is better. And boom. Wow. You know, your work really touches me on a number of different fronts. How do you feel that your poetic voice is potentially different than others? Yeah, it's a little unique, dark in the sense I'm not truly writing about, you know, flowers.

44:28 It's like a news column or reporting something or giving my impression but with some rhythm. Even my prose sometimes I would know that has some rhythm. In that sense it's different. Sometimes I'd send the poem to a newspaper and they'll publish it but they'll change it into prose in their own way. That takes out what I had written still gets the message out but you know what I'm trying to say most of these writings are not your classic boy -girl poems or anti -poems or anything. I don't write romance or, you know, these things. So most of these are social political commentaries with some rhythm. And happenings, real -time happenings. Like, there is this one poem which comes to mind. It's called American Chain. Oh, I want to hear that one. Do you want me to? Of course. Okay. So it's called American Shame. And this was written in December 2016.

45:34 A Muslim registry in America is being talked about. Anymore than there already is. I refuse to register. Please don't go there. Incarcerate means that I refuse to discriminate or be discriminated against. I refuse to hate. I refuse to be a second -rate citizen. Not here, not in this nation. I am a Muslim and a person. I refuse to become an American disgrace. Stir not what cannot be unstirred. Let the psyche stay pure and unperturbed.

46:24 Colored, yes. Tainted? Yes. Unequal? Yes. I am not a terrorist. Period. Condemn an entire people for the action of a few? Where in the history and the present shall we start and end? With this, I rest my argument. End poem. With your lived experiences again, knowing that there's so much happening in America, as well as the rest of the world, Pakistan, the rest everywhere. There's the good, the bad, the ugly, and the indifferent. What do you, Dr. Ahmad, view as being the role of a poet in modern -day society?

47:13 Poet as a social commentator can probably, or a poet -philosopher can bring people to a common ground. And a lot of the book is my imperfections, my insecurities, my mistakes openly admitted. So with that being said, the common ground lies somewhere between the extremes. So a poet philosopher, at least what today I feel like I need to do in America as divided as we are or on the world stage is to know that I'm not all right and the other side is not all wrong and we can meet somewhere on a common ground and first do no harm. That's the very important dictum which I live by in my professional life. First do no harm and then try to be the best Samaritans we can for each other. And I think that those are the places which are excelling on the planet, which have figured this out well as a community. We've almost come to the end of our poetic journey together, my friend. But if you don't mind, would you favor us with two more pieces from the book? I'd love that if you would. All right, Doc. Well, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

49:43 See This Happening, September 2017. So these dates will take you to where in time we were in America at that time. And that's when the poem was written. It's called See This Happening. Come with me on a mental exercise. Give me the best way of bringing down a nation. Take America, for example. How can America be defeated? Not by force against the world's best military? Not monetarily upon the world's largest economy?

50:32 No, it cannot be politically isolated. Still, there is a way. a very smart one at that. Polarize and divide them Americans. Have them hate each other, choke them, create doubt. Which people against people let America defeat itself. Do from within, which cannot be done from the doubts. End poem. So this was at a time when all these divisions within America which so that's the form about that and then I wrote this one. So who I really am this was in 2016 from Lahore Pakistan which I am a physician a Muslim and American only this is a beginning for I am more A piece of you, a part of all denominations, our place, its relevance, this canvas. My reasoning is Earthian. In my mind, the universe. We are the world and this as one. The world is who I really am. End poem. Wow. Dr. Ahmad, my last

52:08 question to you. What do you think you learned about yourself writing this book? Who are you as a consequence? An imperfect person trying to better himself. Alright. Oh wow. So powerful. And there's so many of us. We're all attempting to do that. I want to thank you for joining me. I would keep you another hour, but you probably got some surgery that you need to do. But thank you so much. And thanks a lot, Doc. You have a great laughter and a great personality. I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much. All right, to our listening audience, as I share with you every time we together, let poetry ring somewhere throughout the land. Still craving poetry? Hundreds of episodes of the quintessential poetry podcast are available to listen to or download on iTunes, Spotify. and other streaming platforms. To learn more about the popular podcast or how to become a guest, visit www .qlporyt .com. Till next time, take care and let poetry ring throughout the land.