Quintessential Listening: Poetry Online Radio Presents Serena Agusto-Cox

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Live from Washington, D .C., it's Quintessential

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Listening, poetry online radio. Now, here's your

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host, Dr. Michael Anthony Ingram. and welcome

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to the program. Tonight, my very special guest

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is Serena Augusto Cox. Serena, how are you? I'm

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good. How are you today? I'm quite well. I'm

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so glad you're with me. Well, I'm happy to be

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here. Thank you for inviting me. Yes. Well, let's

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begin this journey. My very first question to

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you is, what is poetry? Yeah, that's a very big

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question. I've given it a lot of thought. um

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i bear with me this is going to take a little

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bit i think i think of poetry as someone you've

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lived with your whole life you know when you

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get in that comfortable relationship and you

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think you know someone and then all of a sudden

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they surprise you that's what poetry is it's

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that it's that emotional journey that you take

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with the word and the mind Like, you can write

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a poem and you think you know what it's about,

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and then suddenly, through the editing process,

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you realize, oh, it's not actually about that.

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Oh, wow. So yeah, that's my analogy for you.

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Oh, I've never had anyone describe it that way

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before. That was perfect. Now, that's one that

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I'm going to remember. Well, thanks. I gave it

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a lot of thought. It's a broad question. It is

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a broad question. And you answered it perfectly.

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Why is it important? Why is poetry important?

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Well, I would say that it's important because,

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like the person that you live with that changes

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and surprises you, it keeps you on your toes.

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It makes sure that you're alive. It explains

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things that have happened to you that you may

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not have processed at the time. It takes others

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on a journey with you. It communicates with others

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and you can create this sort of dialogue on paper

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or even like between poets, like poets responding

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to poets. It's a living, breathing thing, just

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like the rest of us. Have you written this down?

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I mean... No, I haven't read anything. And for

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Marshall, for poetry, I mean, it's incredible.

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Oh my God, it will be a fantastic article. It

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really, really would be. It really would be.

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Well, maybe I'll pitch it. Yes, you should. I'm

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serious. I'm serious. What are some of the predominant

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themes of your work? Now that's a question that

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poets probably have ready answers for. My poetry

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is very all over the place. For the chapbook

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I'm working on, the themes are a lot about gun

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violence in America and how harmful that is not

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only to the people it actually harms and their

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families, but to society as a whole. And how

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we as a society can get away from that violence

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towards love, and to sort of, what's the word

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I'm looking for here, evolve ourselves and those

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around us so that we're not killing each other

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over stupid things or things that have really

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temporary hold on our lives, if that makes sense.

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It does make sense. Yeah, so that's one. And

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we live in an area where there's a lot of gun

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violence. Yes. I can understand that. All right,

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but please continue. Yeah. Yeah. So as a mother,

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that's an important issue for me. I have a young

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daughter and son violence is very disturbing

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to me when children are involved. Yes. The other

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themes are usually grief, dealing with being

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a mother, a working mother, balancing, you know,

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all of those things and still being true to yourself

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as an artist. There's a lot of that that goes

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on. But I also like to play with language. So

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sometimes I have just a little bit of fun with

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poems and create sort of characters. Like, you

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know, I took my mother's dog and created a superhero

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out of him in a poem and wrote some haiku. And,

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you know, those turned into funny snowmen kind

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of poem. So I sort of like dabble in a lot of

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different things. All right. Well, without further

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ado. Please share a poll. Well, in in accordance

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with the gun violence theme, I'm going to start

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with one city, one heartache from my chapbook.

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And it started with the inspiration of a Chicago

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Tribune article about a Halloween shooting in

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which a seven year old girl was shot. One city,

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one heartache, Chicago under heavy fire, a city

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sinking into a river. A bumblebee buzzes street,

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hoping for candy. Trick or treat, she falls,

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swatted down. Harsh words batted, bullets flying,

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boys with beaks, a broken bee in their wake.

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Critical, turgid flowers floating in the river.

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Thank you. Wow. Very powerful. Yeah, those stories

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really really get to me when I receive them in

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the news or hear them on TV and it just starts

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me writing Well, let me ask this question then.

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How does a poem begin for you with an idea? Maybe

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that's it a form or an image? Yeah, it's sort

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of a combination of things If it's a news story

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or something I've seen in the paper that really

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grabs my attention, it's usually the story itself

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or, you know, the theme that comes out of that.

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Other times it could be I'm walking and I observe

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something unusual and I'll just write that image

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down and later it becomes a poem. And then there's

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the 3 a .m. news I like to call it. where I'll

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be sleeping and I have to get up out of bed and

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write in my notebook whatever line has come to

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me in my sleep and my husband could tell you

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it's really disturbing because I'm just like

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in the bathroom with the light on writing down

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in my little notebook. But yeah, and then those

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become poems as well. So it depends. Like my

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mind is just sort of always looking for something

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to talk about. Alright, very nice. You know,

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all great writers have great writing influences.

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Who's some of yours, and what makes them great

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in your eyes? Oh, there are so many. I guess

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as a kid I would have said Frost, because I'm

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from New England. You can't be a New Englander

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without knowing Robert Frost. But then I discovered

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Robert Blake, I think. No, that's not the right

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name. Blake's poetry. the songs of innocence

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and experience and those things. And I was reading

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a Norton anthology in college and there was like

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actual drawings that he did. And I thought they

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were so fascinating. I was like, he's a poet

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and a drawing artist. Like, that's amazing to

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me. And then, you know, later on, as I read more

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contemporary poets, I would say a lot of A lot

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of them are from immigrant stories like Wang

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Ping and her My Name is Immigrant is very important

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to me because she tells the stories of immigrants

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who have come to this country and struggled and

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some of them have died in that struggle. And

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then you have people like Josef Komunyaka who

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I read in a Vietnam War and Literature class

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and I just love the way that he has such musicality

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and imagery in his poems. And they always create

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this image that you think it is, and then by

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the end of the poem, you're like, oh, it's something

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bigger than that. But I also like people who

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play with the genre a lot, like Claudia Rankin

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and Arissa White. They expand the poetry genre,

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creating memoir out of it, creating like political

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speech, those kinds of things. And then some

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of my other favorite poets are like Jadim Hall

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Gailey, who writes a lot of sort of speculative

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fiction type poetry where there's this sort of

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apocalyptic world or where in a comic book and

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the characters are alive and breathing. So I

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sort of read a whole wide range and I find that

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fascinating because there's so much out there.

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It's like fiction. You can pick up a fiction

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book and think you know the story and you don't

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because the writer has some other take on it.

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So it's almost like that. You know, here's the

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million dollar question for you. What favorite

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poet do you wish would be your mentor? Oh, wow.

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Could have been my mentor. Geez. I don't know.

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I mean, my mentor in college was Fred Marshawn

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and he was a Vietnam War poet and one of the

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first conscientious objectors. And he was a great

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teacher. I've also worked with Melanie Figg a

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lot on different courses, but I would have to

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probably say Janine Hall Gailey only because

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I admire her poems so much, the imagination in

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them. I would just love to take a class with

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her and have her mentor me. It would just be

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fascinating to me because her mind works in such

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a different way from mine. Like it's so fantastically

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based, whereas mine is more morality based. Okay,

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sounds good. Please share another poem. Sure.

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I'm going to share an older poem that I wrote

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a long time ago when I was a very young poet

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and very concerned about what actually is this

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poetry life. It's called Sacrifice. Sacrifice.

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The voice screeched above the river like a new

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strangled finch. Sunny weather couldn't placate

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her writer's mind. It whipped and swirled like

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a viper stalking prey, ran her ragged as she

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balanced on a unicycle in busy Central Park.

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The white makeup streamed, black teardrops on

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her skin. The muse had taken hold of her mind.

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Trapped, her arms stiff against the wall. The

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crowd gathered through dimes and nickels in her

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hat. They faded, her mind stilled, an undisturbed

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pond. She placed a change in her pocket, dragging

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toward the apartment, the cardboard under the

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bridge, the dark tunnel of her muse, her spiral

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notebook with ink -scrawled lines of poems, fingers

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smudged and dying on her shriveling, shivering

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lips. Thank you. Wow. I want to allow that one

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to sink in. That was beautiful. That was a very

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dark time as a poet. I was not sure that the

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poetry life was going anywhere. Yes, I can understand.

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Well, speaking of going anywhere, what was an

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early experience where you learned that poetic

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language had power? Oh, boy. That's a good question.

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I guess a lot of this stems from my Nana when

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I was younger. She basically fed me books. As

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a kid, I was allowed to like peruse the facts

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and pick anything I wanted and one day it was

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William Shakespeare's Macbeth of all things.

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And I did not understand anything that was going

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on at the time because I think I was like maybe

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10, maybe 11, I'm not sure. But it was the language,

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it was the way that he said things that I was

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like... Oh wow, you can talk like this and people

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like, you know, will listen to you. Cause you

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know, Shakespeare is this famous guy. Like, so

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then it sort of got me on this journey of, okay,

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well maybe I should start writing those things.

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And I found a book of cheats and I started writing

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a bunch of odes. And that was just like, and

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they were odes to like my friends, like ode to

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Sarah, ode to, you know, Jen or whatever it was.

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And they were not good poems, but it was fun

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to experience and try to write those words and

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be like, hey, I wrote this poem about you. And

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they would read it and they would be like, oh,

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thank you. So it was kind of one of those things

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where I kind of fell into it by reading first

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and then writing after. All right. You made the

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statement that they were not good poems. What

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is a good poem? And I know it's subjective. I

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know it's subjective. What's a good poem? Well,

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I'm gonna say this in my way. It's just that

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I personally am not a rhyming poet and those

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poems were rhyming poems and the rhymes were

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just very predictable and just they were bad

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Okay, like they didn't speak to the subject at

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all. It was just to make the rhyme happen But

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now it's more writing the poem with purpose It's,

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I know I have this thing to say. I know I have

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this, you know, thing that I need to get out.

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And how can I do that in image and language in

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a way that's going to say what I want to say

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in a poignant way and not be muddled? If that

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makes sense? And not make rhymes for the sake

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of making them. Right, right. You are the perfect

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guest. Do you teach classes too? No, I don't.

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Why not? I don't know. I just don't, I guess.

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I'd take a class from you. Well, thank you. That's

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a compliment. Does writing energize or exhaust

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you? It depends on the day. Some days it's very

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energizing. But on other days, it's the poem

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that decides whether I'm energized or not. Like,

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if a poem is going really well and I know where

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this is going and I know what I'm saying and

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I know that everything is working in the poem,

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well, when I hit a roadblock, that's when the

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energy just starts to be like, I'm going down

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here. And that's when I know I have to put that

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away, leave it in a drawer, and look at it later.

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Okay. Well, look, let's take a brief break, and

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we'll be right back. Sure. I am Michael Anthony

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Ingram. I'm here with Serena Augusto Cox, the

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wonderful Serena Augusto Cox. Please share another

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poem. Sure. Speaking of fun poems, I'm going

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to read this poem about my mother's dog who's

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a Shih Tzu. It was published in the Plague Papers,

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which is a digital online journal. It's called

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Superhero. My mother dotes on her Shih Tzu. He

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has snow mittens and more coats than I do, but

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our neighborhood cats run naked. Bearing the

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cold, chase mice and run wild. Cats revered in

00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:24.269
Egypt, captured as sculptures in the 18th century

00:17:24.269 --> 00:17:27.529
with mischievous smiles and clothed in capes

00:17:27.529 --> 00:17:31.930
like superheroes. Molded in bronze, cats come

00:17:31.930 --> 00:17:35.369
out centuries without corrosion, true to themselves,

00:17:35.869 --> 00:17:41.679
fiercely independent and loved for it. Thank

00:17:41.679 --> 00:17:46.839
you. Please read another. I'm enjoying it so

00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:56.740
much. Please read another. Okay, I will. I'm

00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:01.079
gonna read a poem. Well, it's sort of like, it's

00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.099
like an homage to my daughter. It was published

00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:07.019
in Mother's Always Right. It's called A Poem

00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:12.509
to Save Us. A poem to save us. When you were

00:18:12.509 --> 00:18:16.089
small, I wondered what they all do. What if she

00:18:16.089 --> 00:18:19.549
never grew another inch? Would she be a petite

00:18:19.549 --> 00:18:22.329
Emily Dickinson with a large vision constrained

00:18:22.329 --> 00:18:25.869
by her small world, or from below reach further,

00:18:26.250 --> 00:18:29.690
striving for more? I've dreamed a World War Z

00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:33.230
reality, where she'd be overlooked, living long,

00:18:33.549 --> 00:18:37.450
making the call. She'd set the world right, blaring

00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:40.519
her freedom trumpet. like the fireworks exploding

00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.720
on the page, a poem to save us from ourselves.

00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:51.160
Thank you. To you, what are some of the most

00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.799
prevalent ingredients that go into this concoction

00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.019
that we call a poem? What goes into the makeup

00:18:56.019 --> 00:19:02.140
of a poem? Oh, wow. What's the recipe of a poem?

00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:09.519
Yes. First, I would say human condition. And

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.279
that can be something that has happened to you,

00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.440
an experience, an emotion, a moment of time.

00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.259
It could be any of those things. So once you

00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:23.680
have the human condition, you can start to build

00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:28.380
a world of imagery that speaks to that condition.

00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:33.039
And then once you have that imagery in your mind,

00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.599
you carry that through the poem in a successive

00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.509
way. So you can start with Let's just say trauma,

00:19:39.509 --> 00:19:42.789
for example. So you start with a trauma, and

00:19:42.789 --> 00:19:45.470
then you create images around that trauma, and

00:19:45.470 --> 00:19:48.269
you build from there to explain how that trauma

00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:51.450
has shaped that human condition, and what maybe

00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:53.349
you can even learn from that, or you could even

00:19:53.349 --> 00:19:55.490
leave that open to the reader to decide on their

00:19:55.490 --> 00:19:58.710
own. That would be my best example of a recipe.

00:20:00.049 --> 00:20:02.150
All right. You know, they say that to see the

00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:04.450
world with complete honesty, one should look

00:20:04.450 --> 00:20:08.119
to comedians, artists, and poets. What do you

00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:12.039
think emerges naturally from your work? Oh, gosh.

00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.619
Um, hmm. What emerges naturally? Probably imagery

00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:21.200
most. Mm -hmm. I have a little trouble with the

00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.160
whole evolution of the condition sometimes. The

00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.940
poem kind of gets solved in the middle. Okay.

00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.019
All right, all right. I've even heard editors

00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:32.140
tell me, your first dance is great. Your last

00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:34.220
dance is great. What's going on in the middle?

00:20:37.189 --> 00:20:39.769
So there is that. I mean, it's just one of those

00:20:39.769 --> 00:20:43.690
things. Some poems come out really great the

00:20:43.690 --> 00:20:45.750
first time, and then others, I just have to work

00:20:45.750 --> 00:20:49.009
on them a lot harder. Well, you know, you made

00:20:49.009 --> 00:20:51.049
a statement earlier about poetry being like a

00:20:51.049 --> 00:20:54.309
living creature. Yes. Some poets claim that a

00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:56.589
poem is like a living creature. Once it's out

00:20:56.589 --> 00:20:58.150
there, there's not much you can do to correct

00:20:58.150 --> 00:21:00.750
or improve it, while others edit meticulously,

00:21:00.970 --> 00:21:02.869
not needing much from the original draft form.

00:21:03.170 --> 00:21:06.640
What is your take on it? I think that depends

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:13.980
on the poem. It's poem dependent. Let's put it

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:17.339
this way. An editor asked me to contribute poems

00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:21.440
to the Love is Love anthology for LGBTQIA and

00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:25.240
teens. It's an anthology that all the money raised

00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.720
goes to the Trevor Project, which helps teens

00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:35.920
not see suicide as a solution. And when I wrote

00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:39.319
those poems, they came out of me naturally and

00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:42.359
I did very little editing because I was passionate

00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.619
about the project and I was passionate about

00:21:45.619 --> 00:21:50.119
what I wanted to say. When it comes to things

00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.339
that are broader calls from journals, for instance,

00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:57.740
like when I wrote poems for the This Is What

00:21:57.740 --> 00:22:01.920
America Looks Like anthology, I wrote a series

00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.740
of poems. But they only accepted one from that

00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:09.140
series for their anthology. And I think it's

00:22:09.140 --> 00:22:11.660
the best of the series, and they selected the

00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:15.440
right one. But it was, I had to go through those

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.420
drafts of the other ones in the series to get

00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.240
to that one. To get to what I really wanted to

00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:27.539
say. And some poems are just like that. I'm a

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:33.519
combination. Sure! The next one I'm going to

00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.539
read is called Death of a People. It's printed

00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:41.400
in Broadkill Review. Death of a People. Ash of

00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.059
mountains, silt riverbed in tows, rain pelting

00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:49.140
my bare back. I emerge from jungle, bright light,

00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:53.259
orange glow, thick air chokes, unable to speak,

00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:58.869
my eyes blink, water, voice vacant. uncontrolled

00:22:58.869 --> 00:23:03.230
burn, charred vocal cords on tape, language stolen

00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:08.349
by fire, museum aflame, heritage lost in a breath,

00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:13.349
my people disappeared over time, stored in cobwebbed

00:23:13.349 --> 00:23:18.630
fire traps. Thank you. Tell me more about that

00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:21.250
particular piece. I want to hear about all your

00:23:21.250 --> 00:23:23.289
pieces actually, but that particular one stands

00:23:23.289 --> 00:23:27.019
out. Yeah, this one actually also stems from

00:23:27.019 --> 00:23:29.480
a news article about the Brazilian Museum fire

00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.940
in 2018 in which taped languages of tribes were

00:23:33.940 --> 00:23:39.299
lost to the fire and that the museum itself had

00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:42.240
neglected some of its maintenance and these people

00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.980
had already lost these languages and there was

00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.380
an effort to make sure that they were stored

00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:51.160
and kept and saved and that that heritage would

00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:56.359
not be lost. And due to this, you know, unforeseen

00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:58.940
circumstance, that's exactly what happened, is

00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:02.259
that they lost that language forever. And it's

00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:10.559
gone. Wow. And you're right, once language is

00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.279
gone, it's hard to... hard to replace it. Yeah,

00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:21.140
especially when no one speaks it anymore. Yes.

00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:28.059
Wow. Please share another poem. Sure. I'm going

00:24:28.059 --> 00:24:30.180
to try to read the poem. I tried to read this

00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:32.480
poem once and couldn't do it, so we'll see how

00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:37.380
it goes. It's about my grandmother. She passed

00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.880
away at the time that I wrote this poem. In Portuguese,

00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:46.299
we called her Vava, which is sort of a English

00:24:46.299 --> 00:24:51.009
-Portuguese version of grandmother. The poem's

00:24:51.009 --> 00:24:55.710
called Pergola and was published in Virgin. Pergola.

00:24:56.769 --> 00:24:59.930
I never grew out of cookies and milk. I grew

00:24:59.930 --> 00:25:04.369
in. Someone reflective, not out loud. Even behind

00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:07.630
the smoke, I saw wheels turn and wondered, where

00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:11.109
had you gone? Perhaps it was the oceans of your

00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:13.849
youth, a brave island against the rough Atlantic,

00:25:14.190 --> 00:25:16.490
where the Portuguese language carved out its

00:25:16.490 --> 00:25:20.369
own beauty. through a face and a knitted family.

00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:23.990
Your arms glide through the pool like you slice

00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:27.509
tomatoes into salad. How light cut through the

00:25:27.509 --> 00:25:30.869
grapevine pergola. That trip we took together

00:25:30.869 --> 00:25:33.569
to the Azores opened my eyes to the backbone

00:25:33.569 --> 00:25:37.490
you were. A set of vertebrae to hold a family

00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:41.509
strong. A woman with many joys taken at all hours

00:25:41.509 --> 00:25:44.829
after siesta with coffee and cake in the midnight

00:25:44.829 --> 00:25:48.269
talking hours. laughter that woke me with a smile.

00:25:49.049 --> 00:25:52.029
I knew then what I realize now, like the smoke

00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:55.769
we fade, dissipate into the atmosphere, touching

00:25:55.769 --> 00:25:59.809
brief lives, impart advice, grace that layers

00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:03.690
beneath a foundation on which I stand, wavering

00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:08.890
in this morning. Thank you. That was beautiful,

00:26:09.130 --> 00:26:12.569
Serena. I'm glad I actually read it without crying,

00:26:12.690 --> 00:26:15.970
so hey, that's a plus. Yes. Yes, that was beautiful,

00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:18.849
Paul. Do you think that you were meant to be

00:26:18.849 --> 00:26:23.289
a poet? Well, here's a funny segue to that. So

00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:25.930
I've always written, since I can remember my

00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:29.910
Nana, who is not Nana in that poem, but a different

00:26:29.910 --> 00:26:33.430
name. She gave me a typewriter when I was, I

00:26:33.430 --> 00:26:35.849
think, seven or eight, and she just sat it down

00:26:35.849 --> 00:26:37.970
at the kitchen table, and she said, go ahead,

00:26:38.089 --> 00:26:40.650
write whatever you want. So I just started writing

00:26:40.650 --> 00:26:43.349
stories. So I started as a fiction story writer.

00:26:43.769 --> 00:26:45.890
And I was writing stories about moving to the

00:26:45.890 --> 00:26:50.130
Big Apple and becoming this famous writer. But

00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:54.569
then... Wow! Wow! I want your childhood! Wow!

00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:01.089
What I didn't realize at the time is that typewriter

00:27:01.089 --> 00:27:05.009
was her typewriter. And when she passed and I

00:27:05.009 --> 00:27:08.890
got to keep it, I found inside the pocket, because

00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:12.430
it was a travel typewriter, that she had written

00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:19.250
poems. herself. So until she passed and I had

00:27:19.250 --> 00:27:21.690
received that typewriter, I'd never, I, you know,

00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:24.089
I wrote poems. I, you know, I would send them

00:27:24.089 --> 00:27:27.450
and, you know, whatever. And I did go to school

00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.130
writing poetry and, you know, I had a lot of

00:27:30.130 --> 00:27:32.470
seminars on it and things like that, but I'd

00:27:32.470 --> 00:27:35.509
never considered what I meant to be a poet until

00:27:35.509 --> 00:27:37.569
I saw that she had written those poems and they

00:27:37.569 --> 00:27:39.630
were stuck inside that pocket of that typewriter.

00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:44.170
What about that made you say yes? I was meant

00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:47.589
to be a poet. I don't know, there's some kind

00:27:47.589 --> 00:27:52.109
of connection to that typewriter and those, yeah,

00:27:52.329 --> 00:27:55.730
and those poems that she wrote that she tucked

00:27:55.730 --> 00:28:00.410
away and showed no one that maybe say, I've been

00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:03.329
writing and showing them to no one. What can

00:28:03.329 --> 00:28:06.849
I do that's different than what she did? And

00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.769
that to me said, you need to be a published poet.

00:28:09.869 --> 00:28:13.059
There's something there. And then later on, I

00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:16.000
think it was maybe five, six years ago. We have

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:19.359
Finnish relatives in Finland. And I found out

00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.319
that one of her cousins is actually a published

00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:28.299
poet in Finland. Wow. Yeah. So I think there's

00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:35.579
something there. Wow. Just knowing that your

00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:37.779
poems are published and you publish quite a bit.

00:28:38.089 --> 00:28:40.349
Does knowing that your poems are published and

00:28:40.349 --> 00:28:42.190
out there in the world validate your being a

00:28:42.190 --> 00:28:44.269
poet or are you content knowing that they're

00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:48.410
out of your system? I don't think it validates

00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:50.750
me as a poet because I think it's somewhere inside

00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:52.869
I've always known that I am because I can't stop

00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:57.569
writing it Okay, but having them out there and

00:28:57.569 --> 00:29:00.589
people reading them. I sort of I consider them

00:29:00.589 --> 00:29:04.349
my little babies of change So I'm thinking that

00:29:04.349 --> 00:29:07.170
maybe when people read these poems that will

00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:09.450
give them pause to think about things in their

00:29:09.450 --> 00:29:12.650
everyday lives and change things that they're

00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:15.569
doing that could cause some of the things in

00:29:15.569 --> 00:29:21.990
my poems to occur. Your thinking process is so

00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:28.480
clear to me. It's clear as a bell. Well, thank

00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.039
you. I'm glad. Sometimes I'm not so sure I'm

00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:37.319
clear to myself, but that's okay. I can listen

00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.240
to you. Like I said, you're a walking infomercial

00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:49.980
for a good life. Oh my goodness. Please, please

00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:55.119
share another poem. Sure. I'm going to share

00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.059
a poem from Virgin. It's called Schoolyard Game.

00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:05.720
Schoolyard Game. One. Huddled. Still too many

00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:09.440
of us for the old oak to hide. We wait. Silent.

00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:14.380
Tap, tap, tap our shoulders. Giggles erupt. Two.

00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.759
Crouched under the desk. Knees up, heads down.

00:30:18.859 --> 00:30:22.980
We have to remember. Be still. Be quiet. Cover

00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:28.609
our faces. Shade drawn. Three. dashed were a

00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:31.509
scatter of birds looking for home base running

00:30:31.509 --> 00:30:35.730
fast evading capture freeze when touched now

00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:40.529
we're living statues for in schoolyard games

00:30:40.529 --> 00:30:43.470
where the criminals are our own and pop guns

00:30:43.470 --> 00:30:47.170
shoot real lead tiny chest heaves until our bodies

00:30:47.170 --> 00:30:55.359
lie still outlined in crimson thank you Do you

00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.380
have a writing group or a community of writers?

00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.880
I do, actually. Well, tell me more. It's a group

00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.180
of us who are in the Gaithersburg area. I think

00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:09.240
one of them has been on your show. That's Kristen

00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:13.819
Fariot. Yes, Kristen. Yes. And she's having her

00:31:13.819 --> 00:31:15.720
book launch party today for Escape the Lost.

00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:18.960
Yay, Kristen. All right. Congratulations, Kristen.

00:31:20.059 --> 00:31:23.160
And we also have Luther Jett, who's also a well

00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:25.819
-known poet in the area, and Lucinda Marshall,

00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:31.759
and Eve Burton, and Fran Abrams, who's also a

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.599
polymer artist. She had some fascinating work.

00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.880
She would be awesome to be on your show. Okay.

00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:40.900
Yeah, we have a great little group of poets,

00:31:41.019 --> 00:31:43.900
and we share our work with each other, and workshop

00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:47.440
it, and we just have a good time. All right.

00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.819
Share another poem. Well, I'm going to share

00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.460
the second one from Virgin. It's on a similar

00:31:54.460 --> 00:31:57.599
theme as to the last one, so we'll stick with

00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:01.539
the theme here. It's called Bully Archer. Bully

00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:07.000
Archer. One, staccato hammer passed around, echoed

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.839
taunts reverberate down linoleum halls. In crouch,

00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:14.359
one third hide behind lockers, empty classrooms,

00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:19.799
books. Two, rush. herd of cattle, corral just

00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:23.039
ahead, the waiting teacher, dogs nipping our

00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.299
heels, growls, howls, shaking student limbs and

00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:33.079
skin, cower and wait. Three, bully bowman's arrows

00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:36.140
outside of class, see their arrows bounce and

00:32:36.140 --> 00:32:39.279
fall, a chink grows, eventually the bull's eyes

00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:44.319
hit, scars to bury, fester, internalized guidance,

00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.200
deadly archery of the heart. Thank you. Here's

00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.599
a question with a very large scope. What does

00:32:53.599 --> 00:33:00.420
being creative mean to you? Being creative. I

00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:04.420
guess it's really just part of who I am. I can't

00:33:04.420 --> 00:33:08.779
not do that. I think I would be a very sad person

00:33:08.779 --> 00:33:10.819
if I couldn't. Like if you took all this pen

00:33:10.819 --> 00:33:14.099
and words and paper, I would be like, I don't

00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:18.339
know, sitting in a corner somewhere. so but um

00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:22.440
so you are a true writer you've been writing

00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.880
since birth you know what i'm saying you've been

00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:27.759
writing i know what you're saying yeah i've been

00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:30.279
writing i also write and edit for my day job

00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:37.220
too so it's kind of just who i am Completely

00:33:37.220 --> 00:33:40.079
different thing than poetry, but, you know, it's

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.380
just part of who I am. I don't think I could

00:33:42.380 --> 00:33:45.200
do anything else. There was a brief moment of

00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.240
time in my life where I wanted to be a lawyer.

00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:52.559
And then I said, yeah, no, I can't do that. I

00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.339
can't sit and argue with the laws of the nation

00:33:56.339 --> 00:34:00.960
all day. Well, with that in mind, what do you

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.619
want your poetry to do and where do you want

00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:08.400
it to go? What do I want my poetry to do? You've

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.960
been writing all your life. What do you want

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.579
it to do? I want it to create a dialogue that

00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:18.820
moves society in a better direction. I want a

00:34:18.820 --> 00:34:25.239
humanity that is less segmented by hate and discrimination,

00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:29.780
and I want more love. in the world. I would love

00:34:29.780 --> 00:34:32.860
to see more acceptance of others. You may not

00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:34.980
agree with what they're doing with their lives,

00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:39.980
but it is their lives. Let them be. My Nana once

00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:43.239
said to me, you know, treat others as you would

00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:46.800
want to be treated. And I use that every day.

00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.639
Like I don't treat others or I try not to treat

00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:56.619
others in a bad way or to make them feel bad.

00:34:56.909 --> 00:34:59.469
Because I don't want to feel bad myself. No one

00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:04.769
does. No one wants that. So, I think if anything,

00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:08.550
if my poetry can bring some kind of thinking

00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:11.130
back into the world where we critically think

00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:15.670
about our actions daily, maybe even hourly, I

00:35:15.670 --> 00:35:19.369
mean, I don't know. Just in a way that makes

00:35:19.369 --> 00:35:22.389
society actually a society as opposed to, you

00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:25.929
know, an us versus them. situation, which is

00:35:25.929 --> 00:35:29.510
what a lot of the world is right now. Well, it's

00:35:29.510 --> 00:35:32.289
funny, that's usually one of my questions. What

00:35:32.289 --> 00:35:34.449
do you see as being the role of a poet in modern

00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:37.269
-day society? And I think you answered it. Anything

00:35:37.269 --> 00:35:39.510
else you'd like to share with that? The role

00:35:39.510 --> 00:35:43.489
of a poet in modern -day society? Yeah, I think

00:35:43.489 --> 00:35:47.170
the role of the poet is to talk to the condition

00:35:47.170 --> 00:35:51.349
of humanity and whether that is to, like my goal

00:35:51.349 --> 00:35:57.210
is to help people see a better path. It doesn't

00:35:57.210 --> 00:36:00.170
necessarily have to be that, it's just poets

00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:03.250
can just speak to what they see and shed light

00:36:03.250 --> 00:36:07.670
on what they experience and bring light to other

00:36:07.670 --> 00:36:09.929
situations that maybe people are not aware of

00:36:09.929 --> 00:36:13.389
and that poem says it's like an aha moment like

00:36:13.389 --> 00:36:16.510
oh there's someone like me out there or wow I

00:36:16.510 --> 00:36:18.590
never knew anyone felt like that you know kind

00:36:18.590 --> 00:36:22.480
of thing. What kind of advice would you give

00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:26.980
to an aspiring poet who's afraid to write? Who's

00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:29.500
afraid to share his or her work? Why not? Tell

00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:32.460
me more. Why not? Why? Your voice is important.

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.179
Your voice is unique. It should be heard. It

00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:39.059
does not matter who you are. You have something

00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:41.800
to say. You have a brain. You're thinking. You're

00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.579
acting. You're experiencing. You're out in the

00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:47.500
world. You're interacting. You have things to

00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:50.960
say. Your voice is important. And your interaction

00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.739
with someone may not be seen by that person the

00:36:53.739 --> 00:36:57.400
same way that you see it. They may not understand

00:36:57.400 --> 00:37:00.400
that your perspective is different. They might

00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.980
not understand that what they said hurt you.

00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:05.460
They might not understand that what you said

00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:09.340
inspired them. There's a lot of things that we

00:37:09.340 --> 00:37:14.260
do daily that we don't realize has a reverberation

00:37:14.260 --> 00:37:19.159
to those who we talk and interact with. One story

00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:24.619
I'll share with you is I met an author. She claims

00:37:24.619 --> 00:37:27.019
to not be a poet, but if you read her fiction,

00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:31.760
she's a poet. I'm sorry. Beth Kappar is a poetic

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.119
prose writer. That's what I'll call her. And

00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.599
when I met her the very first time at a book

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:42.460
expo, she inscribed my book to the poetess. And

00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:48.699
I will never forget that. to the pulpit test.

00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:51.559
Wow. Yep. Yep. I will never forget that. That's

00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:56.320
a chill through me. Yep. Wow. Let's take a brief

00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:57.349
break and we'll be right back. Okay. Irina Augusto

00:38:57.349 --> 00:39:01.050
Cox, and I'm having a fantastic time. I'm enjoying

00:39:01.050 --> 00:39:04.090
so much listening to you share about your art

00:39:04.090 --> 00:39:07.710
and craft. I'm so amazed. And I want to thank

00:39:07.710 --> 00:39:11.269
you for taking the time out, you know, to be

00:39:11.269 --> 00:39:12.889
with me. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're

00:39:12.889 --> 00:39:15.750
welcome. All poets have several words that come

00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:18.670
up over and over again, words or sentences that

00:39:18.670 --> 00:39:20.789
they just can't help but using at work. What

00:39:20.789 --> 00:39:22.969
are three of your absolute favorite words to

00:39:22.969 --> 00:39:29.210
use? Oh, gosh. Favorite words to use? That's

00:39:29.210 --> 00:39:31.750
a tough one, because I try not to use the same

00:39:31.750 --> 00:39:37.489
ones all the time. Well, I will say that there

00:39:37.489 --> 00:39:41.769
is one word that I do use, and the word is balm.

00:39:43.730 --> 00:39:48.570
Balm? B -O -M -B? Yes. B -A -L -M. Balm. Oh,

00:39:48.650 --> 00:39:52.210
balm, balm, okay. Yes. I do use that word quite

00:39:52.210 --> 00:39:55.639
a lot, and I... find it a very soothing word

00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.179
okay okay i use that word in a lot of soothing

00:39:59.179 --> 00:40:04.960
ways i guess or try to be soothing right now

00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.539
you working on a chapbook or you finishing chapbook

00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:09.159
or you working on chapbook you're working on

00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.420
chapbook i haven't i haven't mostly done there's

00:40:13.420 --> 00:40:15.639
some gaps there's some rearranging that needs

00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:20.969
going on maybe a couple new phones But it's going,

00:40:21.150 --> 00:40:23.329
it's a slow process because I do work full -time

00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:25.489
and I do have an elementary school daughter on

00:40:25.489 --> 00:40:28.230
a few swim teams and keeps us all very busy.

00:40:29.590 --> 00:40:32.449
Okay, I understand that. If you had to convince

00:40:32.449 --> 00:40:34.829
a friend or colleague to read your chapbook,

00:40:35.230 --> 00:40:38.389
what would you tell them? I would tell them it

00:40:38.389 --> 00:40:42.610
is a chapbook about addressing gun violence in

00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:45.309
a way that's going to speak to the heart of everyone.

00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:54.119
At least I hope. Yes. That topic is very important

00:40:54.119 --> 00:41:01.840
to you. Yes. Yes, it is. Wow. Please share another

00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:06.280
poem. Sure. Well, since we've talked about my

00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:12.260
daughter quite a bit today, I will read a poem

00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:15.099
from Mom Egg Review for their pandemic parenting

00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:22.730
issue. and it's called In the Distance. In the

00:41:22.730 --> 00:41:26.090
distance, my lonely child marched into an age

00:41:26.090 --> 00:41:29.889
of social distance, six inches between her and

00:41:29.889 --> 00:41:34.610
her friend, a digital letter across oceans. Squeezy

00:41:34.610 --> 00:41:38.909
hugs, tag, games turned to closed -door sessions,

00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:42.550
doll drama on YouTube, scavenger hunt viewed.

00:41:43.570 --> 00:41:47.800
Alone, child shouts at her parents, cries in

00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.179
an empty room full of toys, books, and ghosts

00:41:51.179 --> 00:41:55.199
of sleepovers. March us back to birthdays when

00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.980
friends shouted, told secrets behind doors, giggled,

00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:01.860
and ran hand -in -hand through screen doors.

00:42:02.500 --> 00:42:18.760
Thank you. You're a poet, and you know it. What

00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:21.880
have you learned? What has surprised you most

00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:26.900
about being a poet? I used to think it was very

00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:31.480
solitary existence because I wrote a lot by myself.

00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:36.000
Yes, okay. And then I sort of fell into this

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.679
workshop group and I realized it's really not

00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:46.159
as solitary as you think. You have to find your

00:42:46.170 --> 00:42:49.110
your community your supportive group who are

00:42:49.110 --> 00:42:53.190
willing to read your stuff when it's like really

00:42:53.190 --> 00:42:57.289
rough and Be honest like be honest about well

00:42:57.289 --> 00:42:59.750
This isn't working like you need to do something

00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:02.289
here or like even suggest something that might

00:43:02.289 --> 00:43:05.230
work better I mean you may not take their suggestion

00:43:05.230 --> 00:43:07.269
or you may twist their suggestion for something

00:43:07.269 --> 00:43:11.070
else it depends but When you have that community

00:43:11.070 --> 00:43:13.840
and you can Because, like I said, poetry is a

00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.280
dialogue between you and the reader. Those are

00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.500
your first readers. Those are the readers that

00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:24.699
you trust with your raw draft. And they're the

00:43:24.699 --> 00:43:27.980
ones that are going to help you see the flaws

00:43:27.980 --> 00:43:33.079
that you're not seeing and help you to hone that

00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:36.559
poem into the best that it can be. But I could

00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:40.320
say... Serena, I have the hardest time with feedback

00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.460
because I poured my heart into that poem and

00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:48.119
now somebody wants to cut it off and destroy

00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.179
the good parts of it. Well, this is the thing.

00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:53.480
This is the thing about feedback. This is what

00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:55.820
I learned from Fred Marshawn at Suffolk University

00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:59.860
is you workshop a poem, you read your poem, and

00:43:59.860 --> 00:44:02.239
anyone who gives feedback will tell you one good

00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.219
thing about your poem that they loved and one

00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:08.280
thing they think you can fix. Now, you may not

00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:10.760
agree with everything that they say, and you

00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:12.659
may not agree with anything that they say, and

00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:15.079
that's okay, too. You just have to not take it

00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.400
personally. It's their reaction to your work.

00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.760
And then that reaction is something that will

00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.139
be in the back of your mind, and eventually,

00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:25.000
even if it's not right that moment, you'll say

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.219
to yourself, well, if they're having that reaction,

00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.519
maybe others will, too. Maybe I should take a

00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:34.820
second look. So sometimes it's not so much immediately

00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:39.289
fix it as Take that time to digest. Think about

00:44:39.289 --> 00:44:42.590
what they're saying. You can just let it sit

00:44:42.590 --> 00:44:45.769
for a bit. And then you might see, oh, you know,

00:44:45.769 --> 00:44:48.369
they might be right. And it might not even be

00:44:48.369 --> 00:44:50.750
you take their suggestion at face value. You

00:44:50.750 --> 00:44:52.750
might just tweak something else in the poem and

00:44:52.750 --> 00:44:57.130
then it works for you. OK. You know, the publishing

00:44:57.130 --> 00:45:03.349
process itself can be brutal. Brutal. Yes. What

00:45:03.349 --> 00:45:07.019
are your thoughts on? OK, this is going to come

00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:09.719
from advice from another awesome poet. His name

00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:12.800
is John Sibley Williams. I took an online course

00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.719
about poetry submissions to magazines. And if

00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:18.980
he ever offers it again, and you'll see it on

00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:21.599
Facebook or on his web page, or if you subscribe

00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.239
to his newsletter, definitely take this class.

00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:29.940
It is so helpful. OK. Basically, he has a completely

00:45:29.940 --> 00:45:32.400
different approach than most people. Most people

00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.980
want to read the magazines and target specific

00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:39.719
ones. Now, I personally write themes all over

00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.519
the place most of the time and collections take

00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:44.420
a longer period of time for me to put together

00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:47.579
because I'm so all over the place. So for me,

00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:52.420
this method works. You choose the top tier ones

00:45:52.420 --> 00:45:55.400
that you want. That you would love to be in and

00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:57.840
then you find some magazines that are mid -tier

00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.420
Whatever you want to call them and then some

00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.400
of the sort of I don't want to call them low

00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.179
-hanging fruit But you know the ones that you

00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:09.760
know some of the magazines seem to publish just

00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:13.019
about anybody. Let's just put it that way and

00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:16.079
you submit your poems and you know you're gonna

00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:17.900
have to read the guidelines to make sure everything

00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:21.179
fits and all of that, but You submit your poems

00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:24.440
to as many magazines as you can find that you

00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:26.380
really would love to see your work in, whether

00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:29.099
it's because it has a great artistic look to

00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:32.579
it or it has poems like yours or there's themes

00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:34.920
that they have that are similar to your work,

00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.480
whatever it might be. And you just send out like

00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:41.679
20 submissions of the same poem. Make sure they

00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:43.500
accept simultaneous submissions because some

00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:46.539
don't. I try to avoid those because I just can't

00:46:46.539 --> 00:46:51.029
wait seven months for someone to decide. But

00:46:51.029 --> 00:46:53.610
and you make sure you simultaneously submit to

00:46:53.610 --> 00:46:56.389
a bunch of journals your poems and then you just

00:46:56.389 --> 00:46:59.769
wait and Someone will pick it up It may not be

00:46:59.769 --> 00:47:01.710
that top -tier journal that you really really

00:47:01.710 --> 00:47:04.230
want to be in But it'll be published and people

00:47:04.230 --> 00:47:06.610
will see it and it'll be online and you can share

00:47:06.610 --> 00:47:09.989
it and it'll get a wider audience just by that

00:47:09.989 --> 00:47:14.289
Wow Yep, and it's good advice. Yeah, and you

00:47:14.289 --> 00:47:16.829
can create a spreadsheet you know, if you're

00:47:16.829 --> 00:47:19.050
as organized as I am, or as he is, because he's

00:47:19.050 --> 00:47:21.550
way more organized than I am, and you can write,

00:47:21.670 --> 00:47:23.269
okay, I went to this journal, these are what

00:47:23.269 --> 00:47:25.269
I submitted, this is the date I submitted it,

00:47:25.269 --> 00:47:27.690
and then, you know, you can move them to the

00:47:27.690 --> 00:47:30.010
rejection tab as they're rejected, and move them

00:47:30.010 --> 00:47:31.829
to the acceptance tab as they're accepted, and

00:47:31.829 --> 00:47:34.889
it's just a process of, you know, elimination,

00:47:35.050 --> 00:47:39.329
basically. But if it's rejection, rejection,

00:47:39.570 --> 00:47:45.630
rejection, that hurts the system. Yes. Well,

00:47:45.630 --> 00:47:52.530
okay. I have a story about that as well. So in

00:47:52.530 --> 00:47:54.929
college I submitted quite a lot of poems and

00:47:54.929 --> 00:47:57.650
I had a little bit of success and then I got

00:47:57.650 --> 00:48:00.610
a ton of rejections. Tons and tons and tons.

00:48:01.230 --> 00:48:05.489
So I stopped submitting for 20 years. 20 years?

00:48:06.190 --> 00:48:14.860
I stopped submitting poems. Yeah. This this was

00:48:14.860 --> 00:48:21.900
20 years of wasted time Because What I realized

00:48:21.900 --> 00:48:25.099
in that 20 years was I had still been writing

00:48:25.099 --> 00:48:28.179
but they were sitting in the desk No one was

00:48:28.179 --> 00:48:29.840
looking at them. No one was seeing them. They

00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.559
were nowhere except with me, which is fine But

00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:37.159
I didn't want to be my Nana I didn't want to

00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.300
hide them in the drawer and the envelope and

00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:42.760
all that I wanted them out in the world so I

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.800
picked up my internet and went back to work.

00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:50.519
And now in the last, what, three, four years,

00:48:50.900 --> 00:48:55.179
probably since 2015, I started really doing them

00:48:55.179 --> 00:48:58.719
periodically. I guess I've had quite a lot of

00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.139
success just by using John Sibley Williams' method.

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:08.519
Really? Yeah. Serena, I want you to teach a class.

00:49:13.070 --> 00:49:16.349
I don't know about that. I'm not sure I'm qualified,

00:49:16.429 --> 00:49:19.690
but you know. Yes, yes, you are. Yes, you are.

00:49:20.530 --> 00:49:22.550
Qualifications are relative. I want you to teach

00:49:22.550 --> 00:49:26.409
a class, and how can we make this happen? I don't

00:49:26.409 --> 00:49:32.429
know. I think you're great. I think you're great.

00:49:33.070 --> 00:49:35.650
Well, thank you. Please share another poem, please.

00:49:37.710 --> 00:49:40.710
I'm going to share some lighthearted, funny haiku

00:49:40.710 --> 00:49:43.420
I wrote long ago. I think these were published

00:49:43.420 --> 00:49:49.019
in 2003, somewhere around there. Okay, so I'm

00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:51.559
just going to read the two haiku and then I'll,

00:49:51.739 --> 00:49:57.019
then you can see what that's like. Negative 20,

00:49:58.059 --> 00:50:01.320
frozen tears on my eyeball, the wind swept you

00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:07.500
out. And the second one is white skin concrete

00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:12.070
head, red nose chilled with wind, stubborn. glued

00:50:12.070 --> 00:50:20.309
to you. Thank you. I like those. What do you

00:50:20.309 --> 00:50:23.849
like about writing haikus? I love writing haikus

00:50:23.849 --> 00:50:27.389
because they're so short and it forces you to

00:50:27.389 --> 00:50:30.889
think about every word that you choose. It forces

00:50:30.889 --> 00:50:34.250
you to distill what you want to say in so few

00:50:34.250 --> 00:50:38.840
words. It's Fascinating to me how much you can

00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:44.420
say in those three lines. Now that's true. Hadn't

00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:45.900
thought about it like that, but you're right.

00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:49.840
How much you can say. Share another poem. Share

00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.820
another poem. We've got time for maybe two more.

00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.119
Okay. I will read one of these poems from the

00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:01.000
Love is Love anthology for LGBTQIA and teens.

00:51:02.139 --> 00:51:05.840
And you'll probably hear the word the balm. Okay.

00:51:06.170 --> 00:51:10.309
especially since it's called The Balm. Okay.

00:51:12.510 --> 00:51:17.630
The Balm. Love is like a balm. Covered the burn

00:51:17.630 --> 00:51:22.309
of hate, and aloe's clear glaze swiped over skin

00:51:22.309 --> 00:51:26.650
to cool. When aflame, it's hard to imagine that

00:51:26.650 --> 00:51:29.650
the smoke would die out, the embers would no

00:51:29.650 --> 00:51:33.190
longer glow, but the cracks are fissures with

00:51:33.190 --> 00:51:36.739
deep red cores. hard to ignore when you're bleeding.

00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:41.699
That blood stains, darkens with time, but the

00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:45.139
searing pain stays, a memory never lost to age.

00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:49.320
Imagine your arms as they curl around your shoulders,

00:51:49.780 --> 00:51:53.659
envelop you, fold you into child. You're brought

00:51:53.659 --> 00:51:57.320
back to innocence, a time when hope was nameless

00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:10.239
and the bomb was everywhere. Thank you. I have

00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:16.920
left you speechless. Yes, you have. And that's

00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:21.340
rare. I know you've got one more poem for us,

00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:23.340
but I want to ask this question before we continue.

00:52:24.059 --> 00:52:27.239
What do you hope readers get from encountering

00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:35.559
your poems? What do I hope they get? I don't

00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:37.099
want to say enlightenment because that's too

00:52:37.099 --> 00:52:39.340
big of a word and a too big of an ass. Okay.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:44.920
A moment of pause. A moment of pause. Interesting.

00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:48.139
Tell me more about this moment of pause. It's

00:52:48.139 --> 00:52:53.280
a moment of pause in their life where they're

00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.300
left thinking about, what did I just read? Like,

00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.579
what is the overarching theme here? What is this

00:53:03.579 --> 00:53:07.480
really about? And what does it say to me? What

00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.639
can I take away from that? It's sort of a moment

00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:13.280
where they are engaged with the words without

00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.480
reading them. They're just pondering them as

00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:21.519
they think about what they just read. Okay. Alright.

00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:26.219
One more poem. Okay. I'm going to close with

00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:28.960
the This is What America Looks Like anthology

00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:31.820
poem since I wrote so many drafts of this poem.

00:53:32.900 --> 00:53:40.269
Alright. And it's called America Is. America

00:53:40.269 --> 00:53:44.449
Is, my immigrant father who shares his horticulturist

00:53:44.449 --> 00:53:49.030
spirit. An aging American who saw both his parents

00:53:49.030 --> 00:53:53.050
succumb. With each pass of the John Deere, he

00:53:53.050 --> 00:53:56.730
leaves a bit of the past in each flower, bush,

00:53:57.050 --> 00:54:02.010
and edged bed. A wake that can be scooped, mulched,

00:54:02.369 --> 00:54:05.929
remembered. The humming machine echoes, drowning

00:54:05.929 --> 00:54:09.369
out the songbirds who call spring bring forth

00:54:09.369 --> 00:54:13.449
new life under the clouded sun. His hands weathered

00:54:13.449 --> 00:54:16.630
as the ocean would batter any wooden boat filled

00:54:16.630 --> 00:54:20.849
with American ancestors halfway home. Thank you.

00:54:21.730 --> 00:54:24.389
My goodness, I'm getting tongue -tied today.

00:54:27.269 --> 00:54:31.579
Maybe that means it's time to close. It's past

00:54:31.579 --> 00:54:36.719
my bedtime. That's what it is. Well, the last

00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.760
thing I want to ask you is what's next for you

00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:42.019
creatively? Next for me creatively? I'm finishing

00:54:42.019 --> 00:54:48.019
this chapbook if it kills me. No. Okay. But other

00:54:48.019 --> 00:54:50.699
than that, probably the next thing would be to

00:54:50.699 --> 00:54:52.739
work on a larger collection. I mean, I've been

00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:56.400
writing long enough. I should have enough for

00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:01.090
one of those. Well, I think you're absolutely

00:55:01.090 --> 00:55:05.329
wonderful. Well, thanks. You've got a new fan.

00:55:06.250 --> 00:55:09.329
You're welcome back on my show anytime. Once

00:55:09.329 --> 00:55:11.630
your chaplet is complete, if you'd like to come

00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:14.530
back and talk about it, you can. Just let me

00:55:14.530 --> 00:55:18.070
know. I want you out there in the world. I want

00:55:18.070 --> 00:55:20.590
you sharing your craft, your gift with the world

00:55:20.590 --> 00:55:24.909
by teaching classes, workshops, you name it.

00:55:25.789 --> 00:55:29.800
You've got what it takes. I just want to celebrate

00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:33.340
your spirit. Well, thank you. I would be honored

00:55:33.340 --> 00:55:35.739
to be on the show again. I've had a great time.

00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:39.519
Well, thank you. Well, to our listening audience,

00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.920
good night. And as I share every week, let poetry

00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:54.679
reign. You have just listened to the quintessential

00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:59.099
listening poetry online radio podcast with your

00:55:59.099 --> 00:56:03.440
host, Dr. Michael Anthony Ingram. Subscribe to

00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:07.820
our podcast on iTunes, Spotify, or Stitcher,

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.139
and make sure to catch our next episode.